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working on a 4 season, 4.5 lb shelter/sleep system

Discussion in 'Shelter Systems' started by schizm, Jan 7, 2018.

  1. schizm

    schizm Banned Member

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    to include a bugnet bag, a monofilament gillnet/hammock (without the floats or weights) the hammock straps, tarp tieoffs and 4 plastic stakes.. What I have come up with so far is a bug net bag, with metal snaps all around, full coverage, but divisiable in half, so that i can use it to block both ends of an a-frame shelter if I choose. On cold nights, it will be worn inside of the velcro seamed, drawstring at the neck "breathable", enlarged SOL escape bivvy (velcro seams) Around that will be the "heavy duty" mylar space blanket/bag, with cloth strips around the edges and metal snaps, for complete enclosure. I have not yet proven this system below 30F for all night scenarios but It sufficed for that, and I did not have the additional clothing, nor the armor. This was in the hammock, with the plastic bag/blanket snapped around the 2 mylar bags.

    I have a couple of reflectix rectangles, for the shoulders., which can be inserted inside of a little pocket that my wife sewed into the heavy duty, "outside" blanket bag. If shtf, i'll be wearing my Level II vest and boxer shorts (made from another Kevlar vest) Given hip and shoulder holes being dug into frozen ground, this padding suffices, as long as also take a 10mg, timed release ambien tablet. :)

    The heavy duty mylar bag, due to the snaps, will open flat, and has tieoff points sewn into it. I also have a clear plastic tarp/bag, with metal snaps and cloth strip edges, which, combined with the heavy duy mylar blanket, make a fine tarp cover, (they snap together) to make an 8 x 14. The clear plastic has fiberglass reinforcing threads in it, and is intended for use as the front of a lean-to, Korchanski supershelter type, if it's cold enough to need a fire.

    I dont like to need a fire. It's a pita to start and tend, and get wood for, it's a fire hazard and it can easily "call in" people whom you definitely dont want to meet! :) The army says that at about 10F degrees, enemy activity nearly ceases. So maybe I'll be ok with a fire down in a dakota pit, in front of the supershelter, with a stick "wall" on the far side of the fire, faced with heavy duty aluminum foil. Because there's less popping of embers in the direction of the shelter, when down in the shallow trench, and because I'll keep the fire small, I can get away with having it closer to the shelter, without worrying about burning holes in my gear. Because the foil-wall will reflect some of the radiant heat towards my supershelter, that helps reduce the need for a big fire. Ditto, by having proper clothing and adequate sleep gear, the need for the fire is reduced. You dont want it to be warmer than about 40F degrees in the shelter when sleeping in the inside mylar bag and bug netting. During the day, can't risk a fire's smoke, unless it's a matter of life and death.

    I seek to be able to also sleep on the ground. I want to sleep ok on the ground at 10f degrees, but I might not get that. I haven't yet. This 5 lb system does not include. the 2 pairs of long johns (one open-knit ones I'd wear during the day, and which COULD be worn outside of the sleeping ones, (merino wool). It does not include the hoodie, the shemaugh, the bandana, or the extra socks (2 each polypro and thermax wool mix) and one pair of goretex socks, or the ski gloves. This "extra" clothing (besides normal summer wear) totals 2.5 lbs.

    I detest sleeping bags that are ruined when they get wet and I detest zippers, too. Surprisingly, the bug netting adds a lot of insulation value when it's worn under your clothing, whether you are sleeping or walking. It also stops the pumping action of your clothing, which tends to push out your bodily-warmed air thru the space between your clothing and your neck.
     
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  2. livingsurvival

    livingsurvival Administrator
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    Do you have photos? A hammock system under 40-50F is tough without an solid under quilt. I’ve done below freezing temps with Mylar and it doesn’t work that well.


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  3. schizm

    schizm Banned Member

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    I'm not done yet. I originally tried velcro seams for everything, but that proved to be a nightmare, too many snags as I tried to adjust the system to the current needs. When you can pop some snaps/velcro and air out the mylar bag now and then, it's not so bad. The bug net bag around me, and inside the mylar, should help with the condensation issue, also. Because the system is "water tight", I need not worry about using wet debris between the 2 mylar blanket bags (for dead air space insulative effect). The SOL bivvy is supposedly "breathble", and I've had no issues with it as of yet, but my experience has been just one overnighter and a few 2 hour stays, testing at various temps. I also dont yet have the one vest altered into being the kevlar boxer shorts. Nobody offers such shorts. Maybe that's a biz op? :)

    If shtf, stuff you abandon, you'll never get back and even caching stuff will be risky. I hate to lug stuff all summer that has no use. So the longjohns will become a pillow and a camp-towel. The outside mylar bag/blanket will become the rain tarp, the clear plastic becomes a "cleanable' table for food prep and will help to prevent getting clothing wet when I kneel or sit on wet ground. It can also help prevent loss of small items that you're working-upon. The shemaugh bandana , gloves, all have summer time uses, as well.

    Since I'll be lugging 14 lbs of guns, ammo, accessories, solar charger, Biolite stove, night vision, and 5 lbs of armor, along with 8 lbs (1 gallon) of water and 4 lbs of food, I dont want the shelter/sleep gear to have much bulk'/weight at all and I want it to be able to roll up and serve as frame/pad for my lw daypack. A lot of the packs's room might be needed for concealing the tactical stuff, so the extra clothing and sleep/shelter gear has to be rolled up and worn between me and the pack. One pair of socks becomes the shoulder pads for the harness. The spare undershorts and t shirt become the hip padding, (all OD green, of course) Total weight has to be less than 45 lbs and I wish for 40, but I'd have to cut water and food to get it. However, I might have to eat and hyrdate before I bug out, with no other source of food and water, so there's twice as much food and water present as I'd normally carrry.
     
    #3 schizm, Jan 7, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2018
  4. schizm

    schizm Banned Member

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    I once had a horrible experience with a sleeping bag and pad getting soaked by heavy rain, along with my tent being blown away, at near-freezing temps and it instantly (and forever) soured me on normal sleep gear. I later ran a test, and a normal sleeping bag will completely soak up a 5 gallon bucket of water! That's 40 lbs of dripping crap that you'll soak yourself with trying to carry, and it will NOT dry out in one day's sun and wind, nor in the following night being wrapped around hot rocks and being as close to a fire as I dared put it! Those 2 nights and one day SUCKED, guys. I"ve had really close calls caused by zippers, too. Hate'em! Dont really care for velcro or snap, either, actually. However, since the mylar bag works on the idea of not losing your body heat, I needed a complete "seal" for the inside, "breathable" mylar bag, to include making it a foot longer than "issue" and having a drawstring at the neck. I also had to make it a foot wider at the shoulders and narrow the area by the lower legs.
     
    #4 schizm, Jan 7, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2018
  5. schizm

    schizm Banned Member

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    If your bag/system is windproof, the underquilt is not as big an issue. When your setup is waterproof, having to use wet debris between the layers (for spacing/air-insulative effect) is not as big an issue. With snaps/velcro all around, half of the bags can be folded under the hammock, and since there's no feathers or fibers to compress, that's not much of an issue, either. We'll see. I"ve got lots of R and D to do yet. and it doesn't stay cold here very long (normally)
     
  6. schizm

    schizm Banned Member

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    given that I'm not in an area that gets really cold for very long, and that I'm not going to try to go far if shtf, and given that there's other materials in the storage, which will get moved to the dugout, I'm not going to add more bulk/wt complications. I will just accept 20F in a hammock and 30F on the ground, if need be. I think that if I dig a pit with the e tool and warm up some big rocks, and /or water bottles, along with the ambien tablets, I'm probably good for at least a few hour's sleep at 10F degrees lower. If I then eat a hot soup (and do some crunches inside of the bag) I should be able to get another couple of hours, and that's normally enough sleep for me to function. I'm rarely where i could not do at least the single point shelter/sling-chair. getting another 10F colder, on the ground, is not that big a deal. Odds are, it would be even colder and I'd still need the fire! :) Also, if being noticed is a concern, it's one thing to have a small fire, down in a pit, for half an hour or so, to cook a soup or warm up some rocks, and yet another to have a big roaring blaze for several hours and then small flames for many more hours.

    If I was living in cold country, my game plan would be to gtfo of that latitude, down to about at least Arkansas-Virgina -S Utah level. You just wont find me living much north of Dallas, tho. :) Or at least, wont be in such latitudes for winter. I've been nearly killed by cold weather, quite literally, numerous times and I truly detest it. However, I hate the heat almost as bad, too. So I'm really a migrating sort of guy. In the mountains, you can often adjust your temp by 30F degrees by moving 30 miles.
     
  7. schizm

    schizm Banned Member

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    i went instead with longjohns, balaclava, gloves and socks made of polypropeline, as well as a bag of the same material acting as a spacer between the 2 mylar bags. I had to give up the reflectix as too bulky, but the armor offers a lot of padding and warmth. I decided that the odds are very small that it would be less than 20F, above 10f. If it's below 10F, would need the fire anyway. Given a cover over a fire, down in a pit, at night, for an hour as it heats stones and water for the bottles that will be taken to bed with me) is an acceptable risk for such times as the temperature is in that narrow range. If it's colder, I'll have to switch over to the fire and the super-shelter set up, with a stick "wall" on the far side of the fire, fronted by a 2x4 hunk of heavy duty aluminum foil, which is otherwise useful, ya know. :) Since I can wear the sleep and shelter system as a poncho of sorts, I dont feel too bad about having only the lw hoodie in the kit, along with the goretex cammies. If it's already cold when shtf, I'll have the heavy coat, knit cap and gloves close to hand, anyway, and I'll be headed out of cold country ASAP. When you have a windshield and keep your head down, and the tires are full of Slime, a wire across your path aint all that big a threat to a guy on a mountain bike, at sub 10mph.
     
  8. schizm

    schizm Banned Member

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    you're just as likely to need the bug dope and netting as you are the cold weather gear, and what will probably get you is some sort of accident or disease. The lack of decent sanitation and medical care is what kept the average lifespan under 40 for millennia.
     

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